Knitting and Proverbs 31
Please note that this is just a few thoughts and not a systematic theology on Proverbs 31__________________________________________________
I have been involved in a class with my mother-in-law entitled “Biblical womanhood”. In the class we studied cooking, read excellent books, worked on speaking skills, and learned how to do needlework projects, among other things. When others in our church started noticing how the girls from this class were knitting or sewing more frequently, it seemed to raise some questions and discussions among others. I was asked by a dear friend if I thought it was necessary to learn how to do needlework to be a godly woman. I appreciated the question because it caused me to think about what I truly believed godly womanhood was.
When you look at the Proverbs 31 woman we find a woman who is using her hands to serve her family by: working with flax and wool, seeking out good food for her family, buying fields and selling it for a profit, she spins wool, she helps the poor, she clothes her family, she makes linen garments to sell, “And does not eat the bread of idleness.”. The question is, to be a godly woman do I have to buy and sell property and spin and knit wool? I think that this example of godly womanhood is given to us, not just to see specific areas in which a woman can serve, but to give us a principle to live by. The principle is “not eating the bread of idleness.” A godly woman should have busy hands serving her family because that is where her heart is. I do think that it would be a mistake to convey that only those who know how to knit are exemplary godly woman. In our day, we are given other ways to serve our family as well as the traditional ways. For example, one young mother I know helps her husband with the finances by running an online bookstore. Another does not make clothes to sell (like the Prov. 31 woman), but buys clothes at a thrift store and resells them on ebay for a profit. One good friend teaches piano lessons. There are many more options, some more traditional than others, of how to serve family by having busy hands. The principle is having busy hands serving your family. That can and even should look different depending on your family’s needs and your own skills and inclinations. Some ways of serving may bring in income, other ways may save money, other ways will just be simply meeting the daily needs of a family.
However, some people have taken the Prov. 31 woman and made her an example of the modern career woman. It should be noted that she did most of her work at home with her family around her and that we are told in the New Testament to be “workers at home” (Titus 2). I don’t think this is a Biblical mandate for a mothers having careers and leaving most of the child raising and home keeping to others.
But unfortunately this thought provoking, gracious question was not the only attitude expressed. There were other girls who made references to “ grannies” and how they personally would never learn to knit, how it was so old-fashioned, or would simply roll their eyes at those using their hands to create. I found this attitude alarming, not because I was afraid they were missing out on godly womanhood since they didn’t want to learn how to knit. But I found it alarming because it was exposing how feminist ideas had affected them. Why were they so negative about learning more traditional ways of clothing and serving families? It was because the world does not approve. Baking bread, knitting scarves, sewing and spinning wool (all found in the example of the Prov 31 woman), have been made into symbols by the feminists of brainless, oppressed, uneducated women. Henceforth all such home-related activities (cleaning included) were held in utter disdain. This attitude was created out of a rejection of true Biblical womanhood and used lies to promote it. Those who despise handwork such as “working with wool” are not demonstrating a biblical view of the topic, but are instead revealing a worldly view.
In the end, my answer is this. Women can be successful in being godly wives and mothers without knowing how to spin or knit. But they should be using their hands to serve others in the home. Even if one does not choose to learn some of the “old fashioned” skills, those skills should not be looked at through the lens of a feminist, but the lens the Bible affords us. If you are ashamed to take up knitting needles, or have raised your eyebrows at others with them, it reveals a needed heart check. Not because you have to learn such skills, but because a negative attitude towards such skills is not based on Biblical ideas.
posted by Kimi Harris @ 10:17 AM
22 Comments:
Once again, Kimi, this is an excellent post. I am blessed to see such a young woman as yourself thinking things through and "speaking the truth in love". Press on, dear Sister!
In Him,
Cynthia
Great post. What great observations you have. I work on the side max (3-6 hours a week away from home)...am a photographer but the bulk of the time I am home with my kids. By having my little "field" to tend I am able to bring extra money in for the family, have a creative outlet and bless others, but my top priority is at home with my family. There are so many things women can do to help her family without being gone 40 hours a week.
On a side note...knitting is SUPER popular here in LA...its not just Grandma's knitting here anymore. There are all these really cool stores that you can buy yarn at and sit around with other women and knit. And they are filled with cool, hip, young women...so those raising eyebrows might be eating their words soon enough. Wink Wink. Plus as a children's photographer there is nothing more hip and adorable then a kid in a stylish handmade hat or scarf. So keep knitting!!! :)
Bethany,
Sounds like you have a great job for a mother! My "field", so to speak, would be teaching piano. It also gives me the freedom to teach for only a few hours without being gone from my family to long. My sisters or mother would be able to watch little ones for me in the future, if needed. I quit after Faith was born because of her heart condition and her being in the hospital and afterwards decided to not take it up again for now. The only thing I am not sure about is whether it really helped us in the end because of the way the tax system works. Do you know anything about this? I think that we had to pay so much more taxes this year since both of us worked, so I am not sure if it actually helped money wise or not.
Anyway, I have friends that are really interested in photography. Perhaps I should mention to them that it can also be a great way to earn some cash even after they are married with children.
Thanks for the comments!
"I found this attitude alarming, not because I was afraid they were missing out on godly womanhood since they didn’t want to learn how to knit. But I found it alarming because it was exposing how feminist ideas had affected them.
Did they tell you what they were thinking or are you making some assumptions?
How do you define feminism? Women's lib--I am against--not so sure about feminism--but perhaps we have different definitions.
The reason I brought up the Prov 31 lady was she did not do all her own housework most likely (mentions her servant girls).
Since your brought up the Prov 31 lady--in the day MEN stayed at home to work also much of the time--there weren't other places to go--so does that mean men should primarily work out of the home today?
Titus 2 says "busy at home"--does that mean it's okay to be away 6 hours a week, but not 16? Where would you draw a line--or would you draw a line?
I won't be offended because I think you are much too sweet to intend to offend--but I get from what you say about the Prov 31 lady--if you don't like to cook, sew and clean--you are lazy. Is that what you intended to say?
Our (almost) 21 year old son--is not ready to get married right now--but when he does--I somewhat what he is looking for: a young lady totally in love with Jesus, honors God will all of her life, pursues a life a holiness, respects and loves others--and that's what will keep their home together--not whether or not she can cook and clean.
We may have different opinions on this--but I am NOT saying mine is better than yours--I am saying what a lifetime of Bible study has taught me. I hope you can respect my opinions on this matter as much as I respect yours.
Just because we differ on these issues doesn't mean I won't love you and respect you as my sister. =-)
Dear Jettybetty,
Thanks again for the comments. It once again gives me the chance to hopefully clear up some misunderstandings and more clearly state what I meant.
As far as my friends, you asked if I was making assumptions about their negative comments. I obviously can't read their minds, my only reference is their words. Their words were expressing an attitude of "I am way too modern and chic, and that is below me." I wouldn't have cared less if they had no interest in learning some of these specific skills. My concern was why they were so negative and derogatory towards it. I do believe that negative attitudes towards the traditional feminine activities are based on the world's ideas of success and what is fulfilling and "cool" to do.
I realize that you brought up the Proverbs 31 woman to say she probably didn't do all the housework. I don't think she did either. If you can pay someone else to do yours, that's great. But you are still overseeing the house. I cannot afford to, so I do it myself. I also enjoy creating a clean house myself and having gourmet, healthy food created by my very own hands, so I probably would choose to do it anyway.
My reason for bringing up the Proverbs 31 woman was because it shows her heart attitude. Her heart was for the home and whether she was spinning, or buying fields she was doing it to serve her family. I was NOT intending to make some statement about what specific amount of hours away from the home would be okay. The point and principle I see in Proverbs 31 is that of her heart towards her home, and her actions that followed her heart. My reference to the "modern career" woman, was trying to reference the attitude we are fed from the world of serving self above all others. The "modern career" woman is spending her time and energy serving herself, promoting her own name, and she would not want to spend time making a home. It was not attempting to reference all ladies working outside the home, but referring to a self-serving attitude.
It may be true that men in other times were able to spend more time at home. (though they could also be gone for years at war and trade journeys). I think that it would be nice if my husband could work from the home more. But he can't. But at any rate, we don't have a biblical Proverbs 31 "home man" counterpart. In Proverbs 31 it makes mention of her husband sitting in the town gates (this is where the wise men would meet to discuss issues, etc). His rise in esteem and position was given as a merit of the Proverbs 31 woman. It seems to clearly indicate that the Proverbs 31 woman was not trying to promote her own "career" or rise in the world, but that she was doing all she did to help promote her husband. Men were also never instructed to be "keepers, workers of the home". The Bible does clearly state that there are a difference of roles between men and women.
I am sorry if my article promoted the idea that those who don't cook, sew and clean are lazy. My intent was not to say that everyone has to do all of the above, but that we should be willing to cook and clean if that's what serves our family. The principle is trying to serve your family and take care of your home. If your family can afford to have someone clean your house and cook for you and you feel that is the wisest use of your money, go for it. You have control over your household and how it is run. However, I don't think that it is a good attitude for anyone to despise to do such jobs themselves, or to look down on others who do. I also don't think that it is wise to get an outside job just so that you can pay others to clean your house, cook your meals, and take care of your kids while you are away from the home all day. I don't think that this is a Biblical heart attitude. I am not saying you do that, or that there aren't others who are forced to do that. But it goes back to the principle of serving family and having a heart after the home. Like I said, that will look different in different families.
I agree : ) that your son should look for a young lady totally in love with Jesus. That will be what keeps their house together. And a heart that is willing to serve Christ would be willing to clean and cook if that is what served her family and ultimately Christ best.
As far as my opinion against feminism, I am against what true feminists stand for. The reason being that they are not desiring to promote a Biblical world view, but instead are trying to undermine the Bible. I don't have the time to explain fully why I believe this, but an excellent book on the topic is "The Feminist Mistake: The Radical Impact Of Feminism On Church And Culture" by Mary A. Kassian
Finally, my point in sharing my few thoughts on this subject was not to say that knitting and other such activities are synonymous with godly womanhood, but that godly womanhood requires a certain disposition of heart. A godly woman is willing to use her hands, time, and energy to serve her family. Her heart is not affected by feminist ideas which loathe keeping house, baking bread or mopping the floor. She is willing to look to her family's needs, and use her hands in whatever way best serves them. Godly wives and mothers love children, love their family, and are keepers of the home. I think that we can all agree, that the principle will be manifested differently as it is fulfilled in different families and different seasons of life. And I hope we can also agree, that one can't be a keeper of the home if one is never there.
I hope this helps more fully explain my intention and my views.
Kimi
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Wonderful post Kimi! I greatly enjoy Proverbs 31 things, and the old-fashioned ways of life. It's great to see there are others out there!
Kimi,
When I am doing domestic things like baking bread, knitting, sewing I actually feel like I am fulfilling a traditional role that I hold very dear. Not that I can do all these things with perfection, but I get more of a sense of my own femininity when I do them. Crochet is great, too!! I have yet to find an avenue where I can make money at home, though, to help out the family finances, so I take what my husband has earned and try to save and think of creative ideas on how to stretch his paycheck.
:)
Hey Kimi!
Notice the last comment, "When I am doing domestic things like baking bread, knitting, sewing I actually feel like I am fulfilling a traditional ROLE that I hold very dear......I get more of a SENSE of my OWN femininity.
I still hold that this mindset is making femininity into a role or idol.
Many Christian women have a feeling of dislike towards the "household" duties not because of femininism, but because many in the church are holding them up as something we need to do to be "Godly Women."
Do you think being a Godly women means we should serve our home and family or Jesus Christ?
My point again, is that over stereotyped roles whether "Christian" or secular, we need to put Christ first in our life.
Sorry, I was not finished but hit the wrong button! :)
If you are so concerned about secular feminism, then why are you setting up a Christian "role" for women to follow?
Dear Wild Child,
I would advise that you read over my post again. I don't think that you will find me prompting serving home over Christ but just a few thoughts on what principle Proverbs 31 is trying to teach us as women. I also don't think that you will find me promoting a "role" of specific ramifications, but promoting a heart that is willing to serve God and obey His commands to us as Christians as well as the specific commands to us as women. It is fine for you to disagree with my conclusions.
As far as whether I think women should serve Christ or their families , I am grieved to be continually so misunderstood by you. If your opinion of me is that I am somehow trying to convey that that home and family is more important then Christ, you have greatly mistaken my intent and my heart. I am only trying to serve Christ and to obey His commandments. I can't help but feel that you are greatly misreading who I am and what my heart is.
Finally, I do not have the time to argue about whether feminist ideas have penetrated the church or not. I think that it is very obvious, you do not. And once again, I am concerned with secular ideas on femininity because they are not based on the Bible and the only role I am promoting is what I see to be a Biblical role. I think your question once again reveals a misunderstanding of my intent and heart.
I have tried, on your blog, to explain that I choose to serve my family and take care of my home because I am trying to obey God. I have felt like I have been continually misunderstood by you. If you still think of me as an idol/stereotype promoter who is trying to get everyone to live in manmade ramifications for women, I must beg leave of this argument. I only ask that you consider reading some of my other posts which could be clearer to you on what my heart is.
Hi Kimi,
I found your site through the comments on Wild Child's blog. . .I appreciated this post's emphasis on heart attitude in serving the home.
You've commented several times on the impact that feminism has had in the church. I, too, think it's obvious. However, there is one thing that I must take issue with. You've said, "I do believe that negative attitudes towards the traditional feminine activities are based on the world's ideas of success and what is fulfilling and "cool" to do." I think it's deeper than that. I think the negative attitudes that many women have against cooking, cleaning, etc. are based on pride.
True, the advent of feminism in the culture makes it easy for women to scorn these tasks. However, I think it's more that the culture ennables them to do what is their hearts desire. As we are all naturally sinful, our natural desire is for fun or what gets us glory/credit/a standing ovation ;). I think the flesh shrinks away from something like cleaning the bathroom because it's not glamorous: we will not be the star of the show if we do the humble tasks! And, since above all humans naturally desire to worship themselves (instead of God--a daily struggle!), we do not want to do the jobs that will not bring us some form of worship.
It's true that we should fight feminist attitudes from invading the Church, but I think we must also remember that it is a personal battle against pride, too. My point is that it's just too easy to blame feminism for causing us to scorn our traditional role; we're not robots! We do what feels good to our sinful flesh. We should be on our knees praying for God to mortify our pride so that we are willing to be servants like Jesus. Then we won't be using feminism as a scapegoat to excuse an ugly heart attitude.
I'm not trying to disagree with your post, just add to it if I may! :)
I really enjoyed your post, Kimi! I think you state the principles well. I also like how you have responded to questions/ accusations. I think the accusation of idolatry is ridiculous - we all aim to be a certain type of person, and there is nothing wrong with aiming to be the sort of person you believe the Bible teaches you to be. If aiming to follow the Bible's guidlines for life is idolatry, I hope all Christians are guilty of it!
I also enjoyed Emilary's comment - it is so true that we cannot blame our wrong heart attitudes on feminism. Our problems stem from our own sin.
Emilary wrote a good post. It comes down to pride. That's the point. We should not let pride and pressure from our Christian culture make us as women fit into a role. Pride works both ways. What we do to serve the Lord needs to come from the heart. People have a hard time doing things from the heart when they are caught up in "roles." I see many Christian women choosing the "role" of marriage and motherhood because that is what is culturally accepted in the Christian culture. They then get trapped in a role to produce instead of having a real dynamic relationship with God.
Emilary-Thanks so much for your thoughts. I didn't take it as disagreeing with me at all, but rather adding some very good thoughts. I think that pride is the heart issue. I often wonder if all sinful tendencies are in the end linked to pride.
Sherrin-Thanks so much for the encouragement. I almost didn't post this because I knew it would bring some negative comments, but I felt like I should. It's nice to here from the people who liked it. : )
Wild Child,
Allow me to explain once again, the only role that we are looking at is what we consider a Biblical role. If that role, based on a desire to please God, steers women into a certain direction I find no fault with it. It would be unwise to choose to get married to be "culturally acceptable" but I also see that the Bible only has the highest regard for both marriage and children bearing. Why? Because God created it. Please don't imply that you have to choose between God and fulfilling God-given roles. It doesn't make any sense. If women were trying to follow God's lead in fulfilling His commands on their life as women (their role, so to speak), it would hardly be a "trap" and would imply that they did indeed have a dynamic relationship with Christ. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Can women have pride in their life? Yes. Can women have idols? Yes. Does that mean we aren't supposed to look at what the Bible says to us as women? No, that would be foolish.
Wild child... Regarding feminine roles: You make it sound as if any kind of "role" for a woman is a terrible thing. According to Encarta World English Dictionary, a role is "the part played by somebody in a given social context, with any characteristic or expected pattern of behavior that it entails." I can see why you would see it as a negative if a woman was conforming to a pattern of behavior. But you see, the issue at hand is whether God has any expected pattern of behavior for Christian men and women. Do you believe that biblical femininity has any meaning at all? We're not talking about discipleship here... of course all of us as Christians are called to that. But if the most specific thing that a woman is called to do, is to "serve Jesus Christ", and there aren't any detailed instructions, then she has no distinction from a man. You may disagree, or cut these verses out of your Bible, but Scripture puts forward quite clearly that it is men who are to be the "pastors" or elders of the church, and also responsible to lead their own family. Wives are told to submit to their husbands. Jesus had many followers, both men and women, and He went against all the social norms of His day by reaching out to women. And yet, his twelve disciples were all men. Do you think Jesus was being influenced by cultural "roles", or was trying to force women into a "role"? Or is it possible that God has "roles" for men and women that He designed for our good? I know this is all very awkward in our modern society, but so is saying that Jesus Christ is the only way to God. But in either case, biblical truth is not archaic, or in this case, chauvinistic. Our Lord Jesus Himself submits to His Father, and the Father is Christ's head. This doesn't make Christ less glorious, or demean Him. The point that is crucial to understand, is that God made us to reflect Himself. He made man and woman to play different roles, just as the members of the Godhead play different roles. He made marriage to reflect the relationship between Christ and the church. And because He created these "roles", they are not only good for us, but they are unavoidable. We cannot run away from them. Women usually want marriage and motherhood at some point in their lives, whether it is when they are little girls, or teens, or young adults, or when they are middle-aged. Call it "cultural", wild child, but it has been the culture of this world we live in from the very beginning, because God made it this way!!! Now, that isn't to say that it's easy to fulfill the roles that God created for us, now that we have the curse of sin to deal with. Sometimes it requires a lot of trust in God for a wife to humbly submit to her husband. And sometimes it is a hard thing for a guy to take responsibility for his family and lead them. And sometimes men and women don't ever get married, or a couple isn't blessed with any children. But the biblical teaching isn't that every woman has to be married, or a mother... the teaching is that there is a difference between men and women, that they are to relate in a certain way, and that things like marriage and motherhood are good things, which it is right for a woman to desire (unless God has granted her the gift of singleness, which most Bible scholars would agree is a rare gift, rather than the norm, and in which case she should not be pursuing a career that would make the same demands on her time as a husband would). Now, if you disagree that the Bible does teach this, Kimi has already recommended "Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood", or for a shorter read, "What's the Difference". We can't possibly unpack all the issues and arguments which those books address, and I would highly recommend you search them out.
I'm glad that you both admitted that what you really are supporting is marriage and family is more important than any other choices for women and men. I suggest you read I Corinthians 7 carefully. The Bible does not tell us that we have to be married or unmarried or that one or the other is better. You choice to play a "role" in life like an actor plays a part on stage is not conducive to a healthy relationship with God or to each other as marriage partners. If you believe that marriage is so much a better choice and woman should pursue this, then why does the Bible specifically say that married couples must be more focused on worldly issues than God?
Dear Wild Child,
Do you actually read what we write? It boggles my mind that you could so misconstrue what we say. We do recognize the worth and value and doctrine from 1 Corinthians 7. We would hate to downplay that in any way. But if you were willing to look at the entire Bible you would also realize that marriage is both good and worthy of esteem because it is what God created. Marriage is talked about a lot in the Bible, and we are not willing for one passage to dictate our entire thoughts on an issue while ignoring the plethora of other ones. I once again ask that you reread what we have previously written, to save me the task of repeating myself. You seem to miss the entire point of what we say and choose to concentrate on one single passage of the Bible without looking anywhere else.
I would be happy to continue this conversation, but I will refuse to continue it if you purposely misunderstand and twist everything we say.
For the record, singleness can be a great gift of God. We never said it wasn't. Marriage is also a great gift of God, and is why He created us male and female. And must I say this again? The only role we are looking at is what we see outlined by GOD.
Wild child, I have read some of your posts and comments on your own blog, and all of them on this one, and I have observed that in this discussion, you often sidestep all the points and questions that are asked by Kimi, and now myself. You take the moral high ground and claim "God on your side", and accuse us of exalting homemaking or marriage as idols more important than God. You make strong accusations against my wife and other bloggers, but you never give any serious answers to their arguments or responses. I wrote a lengthy comment last night, and presented a lot of arguments, and evidently you have no answer for any of them, since you didn't respond directly to a single one.
All you did is make personal accusations and refer to 1 Cor. 7, which I had already alluded to in my comment. I said, "...things like marriage and motherhood are good things, which it is right for a woman to desire (unless God has granted her the gift of singleness, which most Bible scholars would agree is a rare gift rather than the norm, and in which case she should not be pursuing a career that would make the same demands on her time as a husband would)." [Kimi just posted one of those Bible scholars commenting on 1 Cor. 7, and he has much more academic and theological credentials than Kimi or myself]
I asked some questions about "roles", and you answered none of them. My wife and I cannot continue to dialogue with you if you are unwilling to answer the questions we ask. If you won't do the hard work of thinking through these issues and coming up with answers, then we can keep posting pages upon pages of clarifications and arguments, but you will respond with the same old accusation, without refuting anything we have said.
In an earlier comment, my wife said to you, "I have tried, on your blog, to explain that I choose to serve my family and take care of my home because I am trying to obey God. I have felt like I have been continually misunderstood by you. If you still think of me as an idol/stereotype promoter who is trying to get everyone to live in manmade ramifications for women, I must beg leave of this argument."
You have essentially disregarded her request. You are not being reasonable in this discussion, not carefully reading or considering what she says. If you keep twisting her words around and implying that she is an idolater, you will not be able to continue to comment on her blog. You can continue to use your blog to call names and accuse others of not serving God, just because they choose differently than you. But we feel that doing so here is not serving anyone.
Joel and Kimi, I appreciate the way you have responded to Wild Child in a wise, mature, and patient way and how you have confronted her lovingly.
Joel and Kimi, I appreciate your humility and patience throughout this thread as well as your interpretation of Prov. 31. It is not about rules and some law that we must follow. It is about having a heart attitude to serve where God has placed you. For most women, that place is in the home.
If Wild Child truly believes that service to family and home are idolatrous "roles" that threaten our service to Christ, may I humbly suggest that she begin a basic study of what it means to serve Christ.
The Bible clearly directs us as Christians to serve others and that by so doing we are serving Christ.
"For I was hungry and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.
Then the righteous will answer him 'Lord, when did we [do these things]'
The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'"
So, we see that we do not have to choose between acts service toward others and acts of service toward Christ.
And let us not assume that our husbands and families are excluded from this directive. Of course, to look to the needs of our families is where charity must begin, and then to use our families to distribute charity to others is exemplary. Is this not, above all, how we honor Christ?
We may have other goals for our lives - be it careers, hobbies, social statise, whatever - or we may not feel quite suited to housework (who does?) but as we humbly deny our flesh in order to joyfully serve the needs of our families, we remove ourselves from the throne and in turn honor Christ.
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